Interview with Natalie Christensen: parenting with empathy

This is a rare woman. If you don't know her already through the blog she writes, or in person, then I am especially pleased to introduce you to her now. She is someone I think you'll be glad to know.

I sure am. She is wise and wonderful, as a business partner, a mother to emulate, an intuitive counselor (people ask her to coach them knowing she has no formal training in counseling or coaching), the go-to person for how to parent with empathy, a writer/blogger, an artist (she created all of the Feeleez characters) and as a friend. She can't stand it when I use this word, but in many ways, I consider her my guru.

Natalie is the person I trusted to care for Elliott when he was eleven months old and I returned to part-time work with intense personal angst and torment to fulfill my post-maternity leave (Canadian) obligation. That sealed our friendship. She held my baby and my heart as I limped through those horrible months. 

Then, through many spirited conversations about parenting and empathy, Natalie, Nathan (her life partner, parenting coach with this blog), and I created Feeleez together. Now that they are offering Empathy Intensives in their home, it seemed fitting to invite her to do an interview here. 

last June giving Saschy her birthday present

Natalie, you relate to children in a unique way. You seem to instinctively understand what is going on for them, how to ask them questions, and how to talk to them with empathy as the foundation. You are completely yourself, never putting on a show to be entertaining or talking to them in a phony, put-on kind of way. They are at ease with you and comfortable being themselves. They trust you and like you. Other adults are in awe of how you interact with them because it is something they want for themselves and has a realness which is rare.  People become better parents simply being in your presence.

1.How is this so? Where does this come from in you? Why are you like this?

Well I'm blushing at this question. Thanks.

I think the way that I parent comes in part from who I am naturally as a person. I have always been frank, inquisitive, and observant. I've also always really loved kids. So that part seems obvious. But, that being said, I do not think that I would parent the way I do if I had not had a crucial influence in my early years. 

When I was a pre-teen I was a babysitter for the family down the street. This was my first taste of reading the same fire engine book forty-five times and having a freshly bathed child fall asleep on my chest. I was hooked for sure. And the mom of that family was unlike any mother I had known. She had her babes at home which was my first exposure to any such thing. She also spoke truthfully and normally to her kids. There weren't pet names for body parts, no baby talk, none of the other parental trappings that at that time I thought were part and parcel to having kids.

For example, one day the boy who was maybe three years old at the time was naked and leaning on the couch. His penis sort of accidentally slipped under the cushions and he absent-mindedly began rubbing. I certainly didn't know what to do, but the mother simply said: "Does that feel good to rub your penis there?" in a straight, non-judgemental manner. He answered and explained what it was like for him and how his body seemed to work. This exchange cemented three ideas in my mind.

1. You can speak frankly and honestly with children, the same as you would with a friend.

2. By being non-judgemental in your mannerisms, speech, and perspective the true personality of a child is allowed to emerge.

3. I want to know the true personality of children.

4. Authentic interactions can be had between adults and children.

If I had not been babysitter to this family and witnessed parenting of this nature I do not know what kind of parent I would be today.

2. Why is this so rare, do you think?

I can only guess and I don't like what I come up with.

-we think children are not yet people?

-we think high voices and dumbing-down are necessary for a child to understand?

-we are conditioned followers that do not question the merit of parenting techniques and feel more comfortable repeating what has been done before?

3. How do those of us for whom parenting with empathy does not come so easily, develop these traits within ourselves? What would you suggest to us?

I suggest keeping it simple. I for one cannot assimilate too many parenting ideas. In fact I have read only one book about parenting because I feel like too many opinions, thoughts, and ideas clouds my own natural instincts. On any given day I can become confused so I limit myself to one concept. Empathy. I can give empathy, or remember to use empathy if I slow down, listen to what my child is actually saying, and before I do anything, simply digest what I am hearing. From that vantage point it is easier to answer with empathy or act with empathy. And from thereeverything else is a piece of cake. A child that has been heard and understood is not a difficult person to be around.

4. A big obstacle to accepting our children's feelings is that those strong feelings are a huge trigger for so many of us. What goes through your mind when Echo is flipping out? What do you think goes through the mind of someone who gets triggered by emotional outbursts? What can that person do/think differently to help them feel more at ease with strong emotions?

Well I think the tricky thing is that when we are triggered nothing goes through our mind! Our minds shut down and we go on auto-pilot. My auto-pilot used to be lunge and yell loud, like I would have done while training my dog. But now my auto-pilot has become some form of automatic empathy. If I can just get the words started my thoughts and heart will fall into line and I won't be on auto-pilot anymore, I will be offering genuine empathy.

But, though I have practice I would not say that I am exactly comfortable with strong emotions. My heart still races, I still find myself wishing that something else were going on. It isn't easy to face strong emotions. We, as a society, are not accustomed to pure emotion and so it takes some mind bending to see it as simply emotion, nothing more.

I believe self-empathy is the best tool to feel more at ease with strong emotions. Whispering to yourself things like: "Oh man this is intense. - Shit I am freaking out, this is really hard to experience. - Ugh! This is not what I want right now.", will help insert a millimeter of distance between the the outburst and your personal spirit.

5. Another struggle for parents to overcome in order to relate more authentically and ease-fully with children is their own fears. You are able to be neutral and seldom take any action motivated by fear. You are never jumping in saying "careful" or even gasping or making noises which communicate fear. How come you are like this? How can others achieve this?

I feel fear more intensely if I hear myself making scared noises. I don't like feeling afraid, I never have, so I make every effort to spare myself that experience. Sometimes, even if I am frightened inside, my calm voice on the outside can counteract that fear. I think it is more a self-preservation thing than a parenting decision, although I know it's beneficial to my parenting. 

6. You are offering Empathy Intensives in your home. When people participate in this, what do you imagine will surprise them about the experience?

Well, worse case scenario is if all our family members have gotten enough sleep, the right food, are generally in good spirits and there are no meltdowns, sibling throw downs, or disobedience. Because in that case our visitors will go away thinking this empathy parenting thing is easy because we have "easy" kids. But that's not too common a scenario, somebody usually gets upset about something.

But folks (friends, grandparents, siblings) that have visited us are surprised at the sort of "invisibility" of this kind of parenting. An outburst occurs, there is some talking, and life goes on. There isn't much "doing" involved so if you aren't listening or watching closely you miss it. 

Comments

[mary leveque]

Thanks Kris...and I like the name of your blog. X0X

[kris laroche]

Hi Mary...ugh. that makes me really dislike the name of this blog (which ive been wanting to change for ages now anyways...i aint no center!) but now especially because i dont think anyone is a natural parent. its ironic but i think that we all have so much work to do to get back to our natural selves where we are tuned into our own intuition and compassion. instead we have these thick layers of standard responses which arent true to our own desires for our relationships with our kids. i really like the pause three seconds rule before opening my mouth. it helps immensely because i know that i can NEVER trust what is going to spew out of my mouth in the first instant. when i wait, something a smidgeon more thoughtful and conscious can seep in and then, at the end of the day, i am so grateful and so are they. yes...so much to learn. and that is more than ok. its the willingness to learn and to think and to ponder how we want to be with our kids which makes an enormous shift in our parenting. at least thats what i think...xxoo

[mary leveque]

Hi Kris,

I finally read this interview. Thank you! it's helping. A lot to think about.

Thanks for interviewing your friend and I am beginning to look at her blog. But I don't really spend much time on the computer....still I know from the quick read I just did ....it will help with our daily troubles.

I am not prewired to be authentic nor empathetic. I have so much to learn. I wish I were a "natural parent". Mary

[kris laroche]

HI Martha: The book is Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn. Its a gem. Scientific and logical in his approach which is appealing to many people. Hope you are well...been thinking about you lately.

[kris laroche]

HI Anne...Oh yeah. boy oh boy...I spent some of the day trying to sew some clothes that she will actually wear. I am realizing just how genuinely sensitive she is. It makes winter so ridiculously hard. Yet when I can let go of my fear and not say anything about what could happen (eg you will stay sick even longer), and just bring along the extra stuff, I really do like myself better. It just feels better to me. We are in this together and Im so glad to have others to think about while Im trying to get out the door, too. Blessings to ya.

[kris laroche]

Hi Hanna:
I fail at it daily. And pick myself up because it is who I want to be. xxoo

[kris laroche]

Hi Debbie:
You are working hard at empathy and feeling some satisfaction? I sense your longing for connection and honest loving and that you feel empathy is a way to move deeper into that. The example you gave is helpful to me. I dont think I can ever get enough of examples of empathy... need lots to rewire my brain. Blessings.

[Debbie]

We are working so hard at the empathy thing. Taking our NVC practice class (which my son is a part of) and really trying to listen and have him be heard. I see that we are making strides, but it is so difficult sometimes.

We just had a lovely moment in bed where Isaac was expressing his sadness that Daddy wasn't putting him to bed (because he had an appointment). I validated, "You love Daddy...don't you? You wish he could be here with you? You like it when Daddy puts you to bed?" All this led to a bit of tears and a "Yes...I love you too Mummy, I just really like it when Daddy puts me to bed." "I know sweetheart."

And then he was fine. And I felt fine because I hadn't let myself get worked up (or offended that he wanted Daddy instead of me). It was lovely. He held my hand and fell asleep.

Natalie - I often recall that post you wrote about you and Echo at the cafe and she was upset that a woman was sitting at your table. That helped me SO much in figuring out how to deal with the immense and real emotions of a little person while remaining kind and loving and respectful. Thank you for all that you do. xo

And Kris - I didn't know you were Canadian. I'm in SW Ontario. :)

[Martha]

great interview. thanks. i'm curious, what's that one parenting book natalie mentions she read?

[anne]

great interview...I was thinking of both your blogs today as I tried to get out the door for a walk on a beautiful day only to have my 2yo refuse to wear clothing again. I will try again later, with a renewed commitment to empathy. and hey, we do have really warm buntings in the stroller...

[Hannah]

Thanks for posting this! What great information- more empathetic parenting is definitely what I strive for, but so often fail at!