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October 09, 2011

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MIRANDA

Oh please give some actual examples of limit setting and being the authority, for both kids, I have a 4yr old boy and almost 3 girl. Time for me to move on from attachment parenting my 'babies' and gaining control in my home.

David Bugatto

This has to be the most honest piece of writing I've read regarding the challenges of home learning. Thank you so much for sharing your feelings and for finding the strength to express your self despite the vunerability you felt.

As a father of three energetic, life loving boys, I can relate to the difficulty of trying to teach our own. Unwilling to hand over our children to cold bodied institutions we sometimes become desperate to succeed as teachers and guides our selves, and wonder if we are even doing the right thing at all. As we sift through a multitude of philosophies, curiculems and shared experiences of others, we are always trying to find somethig that fits.....something that rings true to our heart and souls. As unschooling definately has it's appeal, so do the benefits of structure and taking on the importand role of teacher and parent. It can all be quite a dizzying expereince as we grapple with what feels right or wrong. WE too have much to unlearn from our own childhood that we still carry with us. I often worry if that alone is creatng the personal road blocks which hinder our progress...

The one thing that does comfort me is that if our intentions come from the heart, then no matter how difficult things seem , it will reflect in our actions and our children will grow up knowing just how hard we tried.

Thank you so much for sharing,

db

kris laroche

Catherine this is amazing...I listen to Donna Simmons too and find her sooo compelling. I will check by your blog to see whats up there. Yes..such a ride. whoa.

Catherine Forest

Wow! Wow! Wow! I could have just written this post RIGHT now... I was slowly going down the unschooling route (from Waldorf) when a train hit me (Donna Simmons' discussion on my blog about relaxed homeschoolin) and I started second guessing everything and like you, I am back in charge, trying to find a balance where empathy and compassion are part of the equation. What a ride this is, indeed!

kris laroche

dearest angela. i have been missing you. so so glad you came by and feel more grateful than words can describe for this mysterious and beautiful connection between you and me and all these other incredible mamas....we are not alone. wishing you immense love and wondering if you can come through this way on your travels?

angela

wow. haven't been here in a long awhile, been on the road, crazy busy, lots of changes, lots of conscious connecting going on. and, i am amazed that i find myself in this space reading this blog post when i needed it the most.

such a rough night with my spirited fire soul daughter of 3.5! when the anger and screaming and wailing doesn't subside after an hour and she is saying that i don't love her, geesh, i was about to explode! but, i just tried to stand by for when she was ready to accept a hug. knew she was just overtired, but the window of chance to get to sleep seemed to slam shut on us tonight. missed it and there was no going back ;) and, this spirited power struggle has been happening a lot lately.

anyway, i, too, have been back and forth on that curvy road. starting off as an attachment mama, moved on to homeschooling, moved further on to unschooling, and then feeling as of late that i was walking on eggshells worrying about breaking spirits around here. when really it was my spirit being broken. worrying too much that i would either come down too hard on the kids or give too many freedoms. and, when i feel i do give lots of freedom, it feels as if there is no appreciation for that freedom. guess that stems from not having any when i was younger. sigh.

thanks so very much for sharing your journey, sharing your transformation here. and for somehow calling me to come here tonight. the world is truly transforming and so maybe that means that our parenting and personal paths will follow this path, as well. to be conscious parents, but also conscious with our own hearts and needs, to be connected to our kids and ourselves in a way that finds balance and peace.

much love to you, my friend. i am so glad i came back to catch up on your blog. thank you for sharing your path, and for providing a tribe of mamas that can reach one another whenever and wherever. how beautiful to share and grow and connect. conscious transformation needs to come not only for mama earth's sake, but for all the mamas of the world. much peace and love, angela :)

Mhaislnut

Congrats, Kris, what you are going through is brutal. We've been doing the same with our nearly 5-yearl old she-devil/angel. EB and Saschy seem to have a lot in common. My latest read has been saving all of us "How to talk so your kids will listen and listen so your kids will talk"... it's amazing! About praise, positive parenting, statements not questions (okay?), etc... you'll love it. It's over 20-years old, but still relevant.

kris laroche

thank you shelly. your words always matter here. yes.

Shelly

Just wanted to mention that I found out from others (when I finally asked at 3 1/2 yrs as I was about to go out of my mind) that 3 is a very, very difficult age. Turns out all the 3 yrs are: 3, 6, 9, 12. I had never heard that before.
Also, thank you for admitting when things don't work. I can remember after reading your computer/tv freedom experiment and thinking you were crazy and then feeling guilty because there was no way I was considering it. lol
We have rules, but I try to remember to only worry about the "big" ones, which are mostly safety (ie no, you can't stand on the edge of the tub with wet feet) and common courtesy (ie you need to take your shoes off when you come in). I sometimes get lost in just saying no (those are on days after several sleepless nights), but try to come back to the present and listen to what is being said through the day and think how I would feel if I had switched places with my now 4yr old son.
I also had quite the conversation with my father this week and one thing he said really, really got me. It was something like "well, that's how I grew up". All I could think was "so!". Just because something was done to you doesn't mean you continue it on, especially if you thought it was wrong. The long conversation at least brought me back to what is important to me and how important it is for me to treat my son with respect and connect to him. I think you are doing a wonderful job at that even going "back and forth"!
lol on the teaching them good nutrition. My son makes people read the labels of anything they try to give him and he asks if it has "fake sugar" or "high fructose corn syrup" or "dead animal" and then tells them he can't have it. I love that!!
Thanks!!

kris laroche

thank you for all your words and insights and additions to this conversation, lucia. so much.

kris laroche

heather...yes..its like there is a need for a shift and it kind of catches us by surprise? like these little babies arent babies anymore and they need more responsibility right when we need more help. we are talking more about them helping set the table, put their shoes away, clean up after every play time, put clothes in laundry, play on their own when i need to do other things, into bed by 7....all that stuff. structures, rhythms. i am sure there are others out there for whom this is so obvious and has been part of their lives for awhile, yet for me, because of who i am, this is a new way of thinking and being. shifting from the attachment mama holding babes all day to the structure setting, lovingly nudging, sometimes insisting mama, is a shift in perspective, in being. i get to see myself in a new way, and them too , and there are always feelings which come with that. i wish you love, especially self love, as you discover some new things which shift you from burdened to lightness. xo

kris laroche

hi amy. i love what you write here. about not being the only one who wonders when to draw the line and when to watching adoringly that innocence as the ocean of life crashes in. wishing you more than well. xo

Heather

Thank you for sharing. This is very timely. We are struggling as well. Me doing everything has become exhausting and to read your thought process has helped move me into thinking about what we are doing. As always I love your insight!

Lucia Figueiredo

First, let me say thank you for your honesty and willingness to share this with us.

I often find myself thinking if I should/need/want to say NO more. Specially in regards to breastfeeding. My son is 3 and still nurses a lot. And I'm finding it very difficult and frustrating. I'm still committed to let him wean himself when he's ready, but I'm also allowing myself to say no to some of his nursing requests... "I know you really want to nurse now, and that you get very sad when I say no, but I don't feel like nursing you now, and I think it's important for us to respect my feelings too. How about a snack or a story?" Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but it feels good to take my needs/wants into consideration sometimes. And to model a way to emphatically say no.

Even though Waldorf education doesn't resonate with me completely, I think it has some great concepts. The importance of rhythm and practicability, how we should model the behaviour we are trying to teach young children (and be prepared to repeat this several times), the effect of children's environment on their development. We're really struggling right now to develop a better bedtime rhythm at our house, because bedtimes have not been pretty.

I only have one son, who is very sweet natured, but also highly sensitive. So transitions and big changes are specially hard (and also food), but if I keep this in mind and try to respect it, things usually go smoothly. But I think that siblings and strong willed children really change the scene. I get a glimpse of this when my son spends time with his cousin, a very strong and full of energy 2 yo girl. They love each other and hate each other, they play as much as they fight, always lots of laughter and fun, and tears too. I'm always exhausted after spending the day with them, so I can only imagine what is like to do that full time!
Sending you lots of love and keep us posted!

Lucia

Amy Grover

So, Kris ... how is the adjustment going? This is my internal struggle as well. Because I was raised in a very controlled environment, I want my daughter to have freedom to grow into her own spirit, with no expectations or pressure to "be" anything. On the other hand, I have grown into me ... a relatively OCD neat freak with an ingrained need to do the "right" thing and raise the "perfect" child by following "the rules" ...

Now, I have been blessed with a wonderfully intense 3 year old that has more independence and fire inside her little body than I imagined to be possible. Since that can lead to some award winning tantrums and power struggles, I continue to try to find our balance ... to determine when I draw a line in the sand, and when I let her run into the oncoming waves to experience it herself.

Reading your post, I felt comforted. The fact that you shared your vulnerability ... your realization that maybe you needed to try some new techniques ... it brought me a strange sort of peace. Like maybe I'm not the only mama chasing my girl into the ocean so that the waves don't knock her around too hard while at the same time treasuring the look of innocent excitement on her face.

Please keep sharing :)

kris laroche

hi dear martha....birthday come and gone end of september with a swim in the river to celebrate! ok...actually a lightening fast dip. and my friend posted pictures of it on facebook and i begged her to take them off immediately. i wish i could erase the image of me in that bathing suit from my mind forever...alas...it was lovely. thank you. forty four. such a lovely number, dont you think? thanks for this reminder, too. im so glad and so in awe of the parts which have nothing to do with me in their own emergence. it is important to remember because it is so. their own beings with us shaping a little here and there maybe. i want to take chris course too. it is so inexpensive and i love that he is mailing out the mp3s so we can listen whenever we want. what are you reading right now, by the way? wishing we could meet for a cup of tea. xoxo

kris laroche

yes...queen in grace and i might also add...presence.

kris laroche

i was just looking at this book carrie-anne. so glad you recommended it. i will get it. xoxoxo

kris laroche

hi teri. so glad you brought this question up and look forward to what anyone has to add to it. saschy calls me stupid as soon as she is mad and she gets so mad so fast and can stay that way for so long (it seems to me). would love to encourage her strength and power and also tame her prickly edges for her own sake in the world. ideas anyone?

kris laroche

hi dear robin. so so glad you are here and pitching in your ways of thinking about all this and being with it too. love your perspective as well and wow do i wish i could jump on board the waldorf homeschool coop learning. yes! im going to see if there is anything like that around here. i love your idea of assertive as being holding what is...after all we are living in these bodies within a physical world. i do believe so strongly in our beliefs shaping our reality AND im learning that that may not be something to apply direction to young children who are at a different phase of establishing their will and their ego in the world. it is all so fascinating. im canning some honey plums right now and they smell yum. big smooch to you.

robin (woowoomama)

welcome to waldorf inspired ;P
i agree this path sure is curvy.
i like to remind myself of of being "calm assertive" which is not possible without "calm" which is not possible without doing a lot of serious inner work. for me - that inner work often involves letting go of shoulds and have to's which in turn means loosen some "rules". but when i am in a calm place (in my life) it is much easier to be assertive which really isn't a power play it is simply holding what IS which i find my children really really really need. in a way i think it makes them feel safe...to not have to be in control all the time because i am there for them to bounce off of. if that makes any sense. anyway - for truly selfish reasons i am happy to see you referencing some of the things we are working with right now because i love how you think and i like when we are thinking about the same stuff ;)
we are in a waldorf coop for homeschool this week and i am learning SO much about SO much. it is really neat.

xo
robin (woowoomama)

Teri

Just want to add that I've been fairly involved in Waldorf education since my daughter was 1.5 - first a parent/toddler group, and now she is enrolled in 2 days/week Waldorf preschool. What I love about it is that the guidance is infused with love and patience, and that there is a very clear routine of how the morning flows. It is amazing to watch the kids transition from one activity to the next with little struggle because they know what to expect.

That said, I've been really feeling an internal struggle because of some other great reads/talks that I've been deep into that talk about releasing control, and letting children trust more of their intuition.

I guess I don't have anything profound to add to this dialogue, only that it is really hard to find "the way" in parenting, and that when I feel joyous with my children, then my body feels free and easy. When I feel ungrounded, there is a deep tension in my stomach that seems to set the tone for each day.

On a more practical level - I'd love to hear form any of you (sounds like a lot of us have 3-4 year old spirited girls) about exactly HOW you help your child come into a more grounded place. I've tried to guide her in deep breathing, etc. but it just does not work in the heated moment. I want to honor and validate her emotions, but also help her move through them with ease. Any thoughts?

carrie

one more thing--
great read
waldorf inpired
Mitten strings for god---Katrina kennison
not a religious book
Love this book
xxxcarrie-anne

carrie

I just wanted to add that
my eldest is 8 and we are a pretty healthy food wise family.I cook all meals whole food---fruits veggie very few processed stuff.
I am passionate about healthy food and so is my hubby----My 8 year old is passionate now as well. It is so pure for him and that question i had when he was younger about knowing about food versus not saying anything and projecting that on to him---well i can say now hurray.
He is an inspiration and inspires the kids in his class--in a gentle fun way.
He did wish to write a letter to members of our family who eat really junky and to teach them about healthy food.
It's just like media i was upfront and honest about why we don't do it--not alot of talking but clear communication.
also the queen idea is not in dominance but in grace----
it took me some time to see that having kids did'nt have to be so hard and chaotic
it's up to me to set the tone--
and yes i show my kids all of me
i love this thread---
xxxcarrie-anne--with a twinkle in my eye-to the twinkle in yours

Martha

I love reading (last night) and rereading this post). Thanks for sharing your internal thought and experience process. I also found Chris White's intro to his course really helpful and CLEAR and non-judgmental. I want to read his book now and hopefully do a course someday. I can also relate to having a curvy (I tend to think of mine as circular) path, and to having fears around saying "no" and setting hard limits, but I did find something Chris wrote in a post at some point helpful for guidance with that. I've definitely allowed Amos to see me get angry, for better or worse, and we often have conversations about those times, ones that just pop up when we're off doing something like walking or driving around. I try to approach them like other strong feelings we talk about, and respond to his feelings about them. But for me, and I realize we're all wired so differently, there's something real and healing and important about living out my emotions (within reason) in the midst of this family. I get pissed, like anyone does, and the mess of who I am is part of this life with these others. I'm not necessarily proud of it but I have to believe that the integration of it into our ways of being has a place, too, in Amos's understanding of self and others. Do I sound a bit defensive>? Maybe... I think about this stuff too. Sometimes I feel I can almost see the grains of his psyche shifting and emerging, and I see that I am but a part of its emergence. There is his father, who is so different (much gentler) than I, and all the others he learns from. And then there is just him, his constitution and self that grows in spite of all of us, in their own ways. Anyway, thanks for your post and all its thought-provokingness. Wishing you ease in the beautiful October days and, hey, is it your birthday around about now? Salutations and all good wishes.

kris laroche

hi ann...ahhh. yes, in the mountains. i would love to share more about what we do with NT food...seems like maybe there is a full post in that question. I will post more details and for now...ferments like kombucha mixed with juice, lots of eggs (adding raw egg yolk to soups and smoothies), kefir and yogurt soaked grains for rice, muffins, breads, kefir smoothies with greens, salads with hemp seeds, and adding coconut oil to pretty much everything i can get away with! using lots of ghee and lard (when our farmer friend supplies us with it), homemade broths. crockpot is so helpful. and now i am insisting that certain things get eaten...like this morning i insisted they eat an eggg (with homemade ketchup) before getting their vitamins. OH and...fermented cod liver oil!! thats a biggie. i will give more details and links in a post. im so glad to hear from you, friend. are you knitting these days? saschy has been wearing the hat i made her from that beautiful yarn you sent..it just fits still. ahhh. sweet life. xoxo

kris laroche

hi melissa. oh thank you so much for this, lovely friend. yes...waldorf has done the same thing for me...popping up and nudging me gently. i started awhile back with you are your childs first teacher. love that book. and then under the rainbow bridge and now im looking at oak meadows curriculum for kindergarten. being called to find gear for play! xoxo

kris laroche

hi melissa. oh thank you so much for this, lovely friend. yes...waldorf has done the same thing for me...popping up and nudging me gently. i started awhile back with you are your childs first teacher. love that book. and then under the rainbow bridge and now im looking at oak meadows curriculum for kindergarten. being called to find gear for play! xoxo

Melissa

Much love to you for where you are right now in this mothering journey! And a resounding "me too!" I join you in the dance as I try to find what works best for my own family, and I leave room in my heart to know that what works best right now, might change. I love that you honor your past and future selves and the choices you have made leading you to this particular place. Thank you for being so honest, so vulnerable, so real and imperfect.

What Waldorf books did you start with? Waldorf is something that keeps popping up for me, a reference here and there. I think the universe is trying to tell me something. :)

Anne

Kris-yes! we did move! we are now nestled back in the mountains and so happy. Clementine just turned three and is so fantastic and smart and spirited, but.....things do need to change. I love what your friend Kelli said, and I'm sure that is the case with C as well. I will be here a lot more often and do truly hope you will share some of what this transition is like for you. Also, the food? I have done NT in the past, but not really with kids. Do you think you could share your kids' favorite nourishing foods?

kris laroche

hi teri...i do know what you mean about how it may not seem all that peaceful yet. after i wrote that i realized that i might have made it a bit more simple sounding than it is! a few days into the change we had the worst day ever so it just goes like that. winding road and ups and downs. now that we are spending more time inside its also a whole shift in energy and im needing to tune into the times when they can manage on their own (playing) and when i need to step in with a craft or an idea or just my involvement...such a dance this all is. sending youj much love...i do love his book, too. so just follow what you want from that. doing what feels good is still such a helpful guide for me. xoxo

kris laroche

thanks jenny. i will look at that article. always happy to learn and read more that fits within where my heart is in the moment. letting ourselves ask for what we want, even from ourselves (such as calm and order and beauty) is big sometimes. my sister insists on me buying flowers for the house now and there are actually cleared table tops to put them on! i love that. and what a treat to offer our kids that kind of space to be in. ahhhh.

kris laroche

anne!!!! i am so glad to hear from you and thank you for sharing how much this matches what you are experiencing. i have been thinking of you lately and wondering how you are. did you move? how is it all going with new homem and all. yes...that feeling of being afraid and not wanting to break her spirit. my dear friend kelli said to me today (the friend we visited on vancouver island) that she is certain saschys spirit is so bright that it would take SO MUCH to do any kind of damage to it and im sure its the same for your remarkable love (clementine?). wishing you much much love.

kris laroche

carrie-anne...i do so like that idea of maid or queen...and we can choose to be adoring queens with twinkles in our eyes for these precious minions in our midst. xoxo

kris laroche

thanks for your words, mary. yes... a better road map. it must be no coincidence that the most precious work we could ever do is also the most mysterious...leading us deeper into ourselves as the only way. i am feeling your smiles. thank you thank you.

Mary Leveque

HI Kris,

I love how you are so conscience of your parenting. You put so much thought into it.

It is the hardest thing to do. I wish at times there was a better road map for it. I think stay true to yourself is the best one.

Thanks so much for sharing your thought process. I have been having difficulty with my own style of parenting. I do believe in many of the things you have posted before on this blog. ( i.e. about loving yourself)

Thanks Kris...sending you a big smile through this message. Mary

kris laroche

hi keely. oh thanks for this. it is so amazing the feeling that comes with knowing others are sharing in some similar struggles and discoveries. there is no waldorf here so im looking at homeschooling materials. wishing you all much much love. xoxo

Keely

beautifully said.
I SO relate to this dynamic, older boy, younger daughter. Daughter who was ruling our roost....our summer abroad really zeroed us in on creating some new boundaries. I spent too much time giving empathy and saying 'yes', and letting things go on that it was creating so much stress for all four of us. some clear expectations, boundaries all with much empathy, simplifying, and lots of deep breathing have created a whole new fall for our home....still a daily journey but starting to feel less stress and more peace. can't wait to 'see' more how you are going forward with it. Thank you for being so vulnerable---can't even thank you enough. So often can feel exactly what you have written about!! Do you have a Waldorf school where you are? Do you know parents who had kids in public then shifted to Waldorf?

Anne

THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!
I haven't been coming to this corner of the blogosphere very much because I've been struggling with exactly these SAME issues. We just had houseguests and C BIT their daughter twice. I was mortified, but I also feel that I brought it on myself. I realized the other day that I am *afraid*(?) of her in a way. I have been so frightened that I might break her spirit or something. I was just talking about simplicity parenting today and how I needed to get back to rhythm and also no sugar and protein rich foods. And then I came here and read this! I;m sorry if this seems rambly, but I'm just SO GLAD to read this here. Please, please keep us posted on this new style of parenting.

carrie

I get it Kris.
I really do.
I had the great fortune of attending a lecture Of Kim's-- love the book.
We are at a Waldorf school---and i am grateful for the strong guidance i have gotten from teachers and loads of reading and ultimately my gut.
I remember my favorite Waldorf teacher saying to me once
'In your home do you want to be the maid or the Queen?'.

This of course all in energy

Thanks for sharing and I'm excited to see how it all unfolds.
Parenting sure is humbling and the way it makes us stretch cause we love these kids so darn much--is such a blessing.
much love Carrie-anne

Jenny

What you say about order in your environment has such resonance with me. I really struggle to be present with my children when there is left-over eating mess or complete toy chaos or craft debris all over the place.

It reminded me of this article by Oliver James (www.selfishcapitalist.com) that I thought was interesting.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/jan/08/oliver-james-children-behaviour

I will be really interested to find out how being with your children in this new way unfolds. Thank you for sharing it all.

Teri

This just feels so true to me right now. And I feel the same challenge of how to connect so many different philosophies of parenting into our daily practice.

I loved the Simplicity Parenting book - probably more than any other I've read recently - and have been trying to implement some of the ideas into my home. And I wish I could say that each passing day brings more peace, but it doesn't really seem so, YET.

I love hearing about your path!

Kimberley King

Love ya mama! ~Kimberley

Rachel

Kudos for listening to what feels right and what doesn't, for following your own heart and for sharing it here.

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